Hey guys, I wanted to see how the community would feel about changing the ladder template to utilize the new Europe map that I made. Here's a form I'd appreciate if you guys could fill out. I restricted it to verified google accounts so that you can only vote once. Voting is anonymous.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdgH4MkPhe_8LOtbmJWxBfYoTLbNid9VWOVos7e0NencOcQsg/viewform?usp=sf_link

My map: https://www.warzone.com/Map/44760-Trolls-Europe-2009

Current map: https://www.warzone.com/Map/25244-Europe-remake

Since my map does change some territory connections, I provided a list on my map copy as to what those connection changes are. For the most part the regions that saw the most change are Czech, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania. There was also a pretty inconsequential change in Ukraine as well.

Here's an example game of the template being played in a tournament I'm hosting currently: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=35706125

Pay close attention to the connections in Hungary/Slovakia as it does affect the gameplay there. Personally, I don't think that the overall impact is great enough to constitute calling it a completely different template. The meta is largely the same. Islands are your protected corner, Russia is sorta protected, and center is quite open. What I think is more important is that the map has much more clarity, it's much easier to see the connections in those aforementioned regions than it was before. It's also much easier to denote different bonuses between each other since I changed the colors up a bit.

If you have any questions, comments, or concerns just let me know here or in pm.

Edited 10/19/2023 19:12:59

I don't see a difference between your map other than having a background, changing bonus colors and changing which territories Slask.

How come can't vote for the original Europe in your poll?

I don't see a difference between your map other than having a background, changing bonus colors and changing which territories Slask.

How come can't vote for the original Europe in your poll?

List of new connections:

Slask --> Trenciansky

Eszak-Magyarorszag --> Nitra

Eszak-Alfod --> Kosice

Țara Românească --> Republic of Moldova

Kyiv --> Kharkiv

List of removed connections:

Vysocina --> Wien

Croatia --> Del-Afold


Are the connection changes, though I may have missed one.

Old Europe map has not aged well at all and has some missed connections and bad connections.

Your map definitely looks a lot nicer <3

Which connections are wrong in old Europe?

There’s wrong connections in Romania and in Ukraine as well as Hungary, Czech, Slovakia, Poland were all incorrectly drawn and drawn in such a way that the borders don’t match connections. Farah’s map corrects this by adding voids in the middle of the map and drawing one territory in Czech very oddly and misleading.

Edited 10/19/2023 21:28:20

Some feedback about your map (when fully zoomed out):

Imo these connections should exist:
Plzeň and Jihomoravský kraj (especally when Észak-Alföld and Košice connect)

Imo these connections shouldn't exist:
Jihomoravský kraj and Trenčín
Nitra and Észak-Magyarország

I can't really edit it anymore since it's live, but I already audited it against real maps and ambiguity of province borders.



^ That's why that Jihomoravsky kraj and Trencin connection exists.

If you zoom in on nitra/eszak-magyarorszag you'll see exactly why I drew it that way

Edited 10/20/2023 00:39:42

I can't really edit it anymore since it's live

That’s false. You can edit maps that are public. Need a new map version https://www.warzone.com/wiki/Map_versioning.

Connections aren’t to do with what happens in the real world. It’s if they look like if they should be connected. If it’s just a single point/node connection (like a corner connection) generally shouldn’t connect. If you do make it connect, stay consistent, either all do or don’t connect. If the area where the borders connect is too small to see then shouldn’t connect.

Yeah I figured that out and fixed the one connection. Bro, I just explained to you I made the connections work visually and how they work in real life. I made the decision to make the connections as clear as possible. Why would I regress by artificially changing the borders to something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t visually work?

why are you still playing warlight?

@pulsey i'm not? we're all playing warzone bub

ik it doesn't concern me since I'm not playing wl anymore, but I don't really see the point outside of updated graphics? Leave the last good old strategic template still standing as it is pls.

While your map looks way prettier, I prefer my version with the connections as they once were with Troll's Europe. Especially around Czech and Slovakia the new connections will change the meta. I'd like the old template to remain, therefore the old map to remain. I'd prefer both Troll's Europe and my remake over a map with edited connections for aesthetic purposes.

So much I admire to have adjusted the map to be geographically more correct, I don't like to have a 3v3 Europe Ladder Template adjusted with a map with different connections.

Rather I'd like to see a remake of the map that has an adjustment in territory names, for the case that the actual real world connections doesn't exist: South[bonus], East[bonus], West[bonus], North[bonus], Central[bonus], Northwest[bonus],... In drawing borders you would be more or less free, but could arrange the territories in order to meet the connections of the original.

Edited 10/29/2023 16:57:25

It’s not vastly different and it’s far easier for new players to understand, as well as being aesthetically nice. I guess we could graphically overhaul it and change territory names but the original map drew it with provincial borders for the most part so just arbitrarily changing the names and redrawing it to force connections is actually very difficult. Especially since the problem is usually that the country itself was drawn incorrectly, and the presence of 4-way corners.

As for the meta feel free to play it or watch the tournament games. I don’t feel that the meta changed much at all nor do I feel that the meta changing is necessarily a bad thing. Islands still dominate, but center pick order may change. This hardly affects the vast majority of players who play the 3v3 ladder anyways since there’s very few div A players to begin with playing 3v3 ladder.

I see a lot of people chiming in who have no interest in actually playing the 3v3 ladder. Why do you oppose change to it if you don’t even want to play it in the first place? Would not a different template be somewhat appealing since it would force you to re-evaluate center?

Edited 10/30/2023 14:52:54

Also please try playing current map on phone. It’s not fun and a lot of the borders are ambiguous. The only reason why I know the correct connections is purely based on playing it so often.

Can't we change the current map to Middle Earth?

I mean, if you change the map to what you suggest, it will lock the Europe template in and changing it will be hard.

Edited 10/31/2023 14:18:21

I mean, you can always try to make a push for middle earth, but I don't think anyone really has experience with that template, nor does it get played very often in public games.

+1, if 1v1 ladder gets a facelift, 3v3 should as well. Also props to Kenny for the time spent in the project